The January 6 committee investigating the deadly attack on the Capitol is reportedly deciding whether to interview Ginni Thomas — the Republican activist and wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas — about her efforts to overturn Donald Trump’s 2020 election loss. The move comes after a series of Thomas’s texts were made public in which she urges Donald Trump’s then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in the weeks following the election to take action to prevent a Biden victory. Justice Thomas is the only justice who dissented in the Supreme Court’s decision a few months ago that led to the release of White House documents around January 6. We speak with Ian Millhiser, senior correspondent at Vox, who calls Ginni Thomas “a cheerleader at the highest level” for the attempt to overturn the election. “When you’re a judge, you can’t sit on a case where your wife has an interest,” says Millhiser. “If Clarence Thomas knew that his wife was potentially implicated in this scandal, I think he should have recused himself from this case.” Millhiser’s latest piece is headlined “Clarence Thomas’s long fight against fair and democratic elections.”
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be final.
AMY GOODMAN: The January 6th committee investigating the deadly attack on the Capitol is reportedly deciding whether to interview Ginni Thomas — the Republican activist who’s also the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas — about her efforts to overturn Donald Trump’s 2020 election loss. The move comes after her texts with Trump’s then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in the weeks following the election were made public last week in a Washington Post/CBS exposé. Ginni Thomas sent Meadows 29 texts urging him to act to stop Biden’s victory. She cited conspiracy theories about a stolen election that were popularized by far-right QAnon.
On November 10th, after news outlets declared Joe Biden the winner, Ginni Thomas wrote to Meadows, “Help This Great President stand firm, Mark!!!…You are the leader, with him, who is standing for America’s constitutional governance at the precipice. The majority knows Biden and the Left is attempting the greatest Heist of our History,” she texted.
A request by Trump to stop the release of White House documents was denied by the Supreme Court in January. In the 8-to-1 ruling, only one justice dissented: Clarence Thomas, Gina’s husband. After the release of text messages, there are increasing calls for Justice Thomas’ impeachment. This is because Justice Thomas, who was in hospital for almost a week with a unspecified infection, participated remotely Monday at arguments at the Supreme Court.
For more, we’re joined by Ian Millhiser, senior correspondent at Vox, who has long followed Justice Thomas. His new piece, out today, is headlined “Clarence Thomas’s long fight against fair and democratic elections: Like wife, like husband.” He is the author of two books on the high court: The Agenda: How the Republican Supreme Court is Redefining America Injustices: The Supreme Court’s History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted.
Ian, we are glad to have you back. Democracy Now! If you can talk about the significance of what has been discovered about Ginni Thomas’s texts, and the connection to her husband and the rules in the Supreme Court around partners ruling in cases that involve — that may possibly involve their spouses?
IAN MILLHISER:We know now that Ginni Thomas was a cheerleader. She was a cheerleader at all levels. I mean, she was texting the White House chief of staff about, you know, cheering on Trump’s efforts to overturn the election. We don’t know yet if she was a co-conspirator. Did she sit in the same room as John Eastman to plan the strategy to overturn the election? You can find out more about her role in the various documents and interviews that the January 6 Committee is conducting.
You mentioned in the intro that they sought records from the White House. Thomas — Justice Thomas — tried to block their access to these records. And, you know, we don’t yet know what’s in those records. We don’t know if they incriminate Ginni Thomas. We don’t know if they reveal her to be a co-conspirator. We don’t know if her name isn’t mentioned at all. So, if Clarence Thomas knew that his wife was potentially implicated in this scandal, I think he should have recused himself from that case, and he should recuse himself from any future cases related to this — related to this investigation, because, you know, when you’re a judge, you can’t sit on a case where your wife has an interest.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ:What are the conflict of interests requirements for Supreme Court justices. There has been a push in Congress to tighten those requirements, but Chief Justice Roberts warned against Congress trying to control an equal branch government.
IAN MILLHISER: Yeah. So, there’s really two questions there. I mean, there are certain obligations. You know, a judge shouldn’t sit on a case where their impartiality can reasonably be questioned, and so on and so forth. The issue is that there’s no enforceable ethics rules against Supreme Court of the United States. So, there’s a statute which tells them what they’re supposed to do, and the justices have said for a really long time, “Oh, yeah, we are very, very careful about complying with ethics,” and so on and so forth, but, ultimately, it’s up to each individual justice. And, I mean, this is the overarching problem we’re having with the Supreme Court right now, is when this body gets out of line, when it gets overly partisan, when it starts ignoring the law, there really isn’t a good method to rein in a rogue Supreme Court. I mean, there’s impeachment, but impeachment takes 67 votes. We couldn’t even impeach — successfully impeach Donald Trump after Donald Trump cheered on an attack on the Capitol.
So I’m not optimistic that Justice Thomas will be able to do anything. However, his wife may have an interest in a case. This is the classic example of where you should withdraw. You can’t sit on a case that you have an interest in, and you can’t sit on a case where your immediate family members have a direct interest.
AMY GOODMAN: And Justice Ian Millhiser — I mean, and, Ian, isn’t it —
IAN MILLHISER: I’ve been promoted! Great!
AMY GOODMAN: Isn’t it true that in this case where Clarence Thomas was the only dissenter — he did not want to obligate Donald Trump to send over these documents — that’s where the emails were discovered of his wife? There is an indication that he wanted to cover it up.
IAN MILLHISER:My understanding is that the text messages between Ginni and Mark Meadows were sent from a different batch. They were voluntarily given to the committee by Mark Meadows, which I believe is true. The documents that the committee wanted from Trump White House were in the National Archives. Trump sued to block them. And I don’t believe we know what’s in those documents yet. Now, I’m sure the January 6 committee will get around to telling us very soon.
The question is: How did Clarence Thomas know this? Clarence Thomas knew that his wife could have been involved in the January 6th attack. And if he knew that, then he obviously can’t sit on a case involving an investigation into the January 6th attack.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And could you talk in general about Justice Thomas’s record? His dissent is not unusual given his past experience with cases.
IAN MILLHISER: Yeah, no, that’s right. I mean, if I didn’t know about Ginni Thomas’s involvement, I still would’t be surprised by the vote that Clarence Thomas cast in that one case, because he’s consistently been a strong opponent of voting rights laws. He has — you know, the Roberts Court has been awful to the Voting Rights Act. He’s wanted to go much further. He supports a doctrine which would allow state legislatures in states to ignore their constitutions when passing election laws. He is a staunch opponent of freedom and the press. He wants to reverse a case called New York Times v. SullivanThis protects reporters against malicious libel lawsuits that threaten to bankrupt their outlets. And he just doesn’t believe that the legislatures should have the authority to make laws. He thinks federal child labor laws to be unconstitutional. He thinks the ban on white-only lunch counters is illegal. He believes that the minimum wage should be abolished. This is a man who doesn’t believe democracy. And so I’m not at all surprised to learn that he is married to a woman who apparently also does not have a very strong attachment to democracy.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Ian Millhiser, the report that Ginni Thomas was at the January 6th protest, the significance of that, and also, in these texts, calling for the hiring of Sidney Powell, the conspiracy theorist lawyer, who even herself in court defended herself by saying, “No one should have believed what I said”?
IAN MILLHISER: Right, yeah. She was recommending legal counsel to potential clients, which suggests that she could have played a greater role. Again, we need more information. I want to know what’s in the new documents. I believe that Ginni Thomas should be interviewed by the committee. You know, there are many people who attended the rally on the Capitol grass, which is lawful — you’re allowed to rally on the Capitol grass — and did not invade the Capitol. So we don’t yet know that she committed that particular crime. We need more information. We don’t know yet if Ginni Thomas has done anything criminal. We don’t even know whether she was involved in any of the planning. We do know that the wife of a Supreme Court justice was a cheerleader for this coup attempt.
AMY GOODMAN:Ian Millhiser, thank you for being with Vox, senior correspondent. We will link directly to your coverage at democracynow.org.
Coming up, we’re going to look at a new Frontline/ProPublica documentary, Plot to overturn the election, with reporter A.C. Thompson. Stay with us.
