CIA Whistleblower Says Giuliani’s Aide Told Him Pardon Would Cost $2 Million

Calls are rising for the Justice Division to analyze Donald Trump’s lawyer and former New York Metropolis Mayor Rudy Giuliani for allegedly plotting to promote presidential pardons through the Trump administration, after his former worker Noelle Dunphy filed a $10 million lawsuit towards Giuliani accusing him of sexual assault and different misconduct. The grievance alleges Giuliani “requested Ms. Dunphy if she knew anybody in want of a pardon, telling her that he was promoting pardons for $2 million, which he and President Trump would break up.” Dunphy just isn’t the primary particular person to publicly reveal this scheme; CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou has beforehand divulged that he was amongst these requested to pay up in return for a clear slate. “This lawsuit is the primary that I heard that cash was presupposed to be break up with President Trump,” he tells Democracy Now! Kiriakou, who didn’t finally get a pardon, says he was advised by a Giuliani aide to not trouble with a proper software and that it might be dealt with informally. “It was all presupposed to be hush-hush,” he says.


It is a rush transcript. Copy might not be in its closing kind.

AMY GOODMAN: Former New York Metropolis mayor, and Donald Trump lawyer, Rudy Giuliani is coming beneath growing scrutiny this week after a former affiliate filed a $10 million lawsuit towards him, alleging, quote, “illegal abuses of energy, wide-ranging sexual assault and harassment, wage theft and different misconduct,” unquote. The swimsuit was filed by Noelle Dunphy, who says Giuliani secretly employed her in 2019 off the books, whereas promising her an annual wage of $1 million. Dunphy says Giuliani repeatedly sexually assaulted her. She additionally accuses Giuliani of being continuously drunk and making racist, sexist and antisemitic feedback, a lot of which have been recorded.

The lawsuit additionally alleges Giuliani plotted to promote pardons for $2 million, to be break up between him and Donald Trump, who would concern the pardons. Giuliani has confronted this accusation earlier than. Two years in the past, former CIA officer John Kiriakou mentioned an affiliate of Giuliani supplied him a pardon for $2 million. Kiriakou was searching for a pardon for his position in exposing the CIA’s torture program. He had been arrested in 2012, spent almost two years in jail.

Effectively, John Kiriakou joins us now from Washington, D.C.

John, welcome again to Democracy Now! It’s good to have you ever with us. Let’s return —

JOHN KIRIAKOU: Thanks a lot.

AMY GOODMAN: — to what truly occurred. What have been you supplied, and by whom? And the place was the supply made?

JOHN KIRIAKOU: Effectively, I reached out to an affiliate of Rudy Giuliani’s in late 2020, after the election, pondering that this could be a great time to attempt to get to President Trump and ask for a pardon. I used to be capable of get via to one among Giuliani’s associates or assistants, and he recommended that we meet on the Trump Lodge right here in Washington, D.C., the primary week of January 2021. Apparently sufficient, he mentioned that we needed to meet at midday as a result of the mayor loved a drink or two — or 5 — earlier within the day, and by 2:00 we wouldn’t have the ability to have a lot of a dialog. So we met at 2 — at 12:00, reasonably, on the Trump Lodge.

It was a number of of us. It was Giuliani, his assistant, a second particular person and my lawyer and me. And we sat there and made idle chitchat for 10 minutes. And at last, I mentioned, “So, Mr. Mayor, there’s this concern of a pardon.” And Giuliani instantly stood up and mentioned he wanted to make use of the lads’s room, and he walked away. And I mentioned to the aide, “What simply occurred?” And he mentioned, “You by no means speak to Rudy a few pardon. You speak to me a few pardon, and I’ll speak to Rudy.” I mentioned, “OK, that’s advantageous.”

And he mentioned, “Rudy goes to need $2 million.” And I laughed, and I mentioned, “I don’t have $2 million. I’ll by no means have $2 million. And apart from, even when I had $2 million, I wouldn’t spend it to get better a $700,000 pension.” And we sat there for a second, and I mentioned, “Look, this isn’t going to work out. Thanks on your time.” And I obtained up, and I walked away. And that was the top of the dialog.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And the way have been you finally granted a pardon, John?

JOHN KIRIAKOU: Oh, I wasn’t. You understand, it’s humorous. I had some help within the Trump administration, however solely as a result of I used to be convicted beneath the Obama administration. However I had approached Giuliani. I had employed a Republican lobbyist. And in the long run, nothing got here of it.

AMY GOODMAN: So, John, when you may clarify if there was any point out — now, once more, whereas there are a lot of issues on this lawsuit, very explosive lawsuit, that have been recorded, as a result of, apparently, Noelle Dunphy says, Giuliani wished issues recorded as a result of he was speaking about writing a ebook about himself and wished lots of issues recorded. This wasn’t. And so, these allegations that he was going to separate the cash — additionally advised individuals who wished this type of pardon to not undergo the common routes, as a result of then it might all be documented and he couldn’t take the cash. So, have been you advised that this must be kind of fully off the books, and also you don’t undergo the Justice Division? Did you’ve gotten any indication, as a result of at this level we don’t know of any direct connection between him and Donald Trump splitting this, if, the truth is, Trump gave a pardon to you?

JOHN KIRIAKOU: Frankly, this lawsuit is the primary that I had heard that cash was presupposed to be break up with President Trump. I’ll say that Giuliani’s aide advised me to not trouble going to the web site of the Workplace of the U.S. Pardon Legal professional and making use of on-line. He mentioned, “We’re going to do that quietly, privately, behind the scenes.” And I mentioned, “That’s advantageous. I do know that’s the way in which issues work in Washington.” So I by no means utilized for the pardon formally, formally, with the Workplace of the U.S. Pardon Legal professional. It was all presupposed to be hush-hush.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, the truth is, John, Trump granted only a few pardons. I don’t know if that’s simply formally via, as you say, the Workplace of the Pardon Legal professional, and even via these different means.

JOHN KIRIAKOU: Effectively, you realize, that’s a really attention-grabbing factor. There actually is a really formal manner of making use of for a pardon. You go to this web site, you fill out the shape, and also you hope for the very best. Within the meantime, the web site routes your software to the FBI, the FBI does a background investigation to just be sure you’ve been “rehabilitated,” after which it goes to your prosecuting attorneys and to the prosecuting choose for remark.

Now, that is presupposed to be impartial of the Justice Division. The Workplace of the U.S. Pardon Legal professional is meant to be hooked up to the chief workplace of the president. It’s truly not. It bodily sits on the Justice Division, which isn’t the way in which lawmakers on Capitol Hill had initially meant it. However because of this, virtually no person is really helpful for a pardon. Nearly no person. And within the meantime, in order for you a pardon and you’ve got entry to the president, that’s actually the way you do it. That’s not distinctive, or that wasn’t distinctive to Donald Trump. Each president does it that manner. It’s form of a type of ugly little secrets and techniques of Washington.

AMY GOODMAN: John Kiriakou spent 14 years on the CIA as an analyst and a case officer. He uncovered the Bush-era torture program, was the one official jailed in reference to that torture program — he, for exposing it. Kiriakou was reportedly advised he may safe a presidential pardon from Trump for $2 million. Effectively, John Kiriakou goes to stick with us. Developing, a U.N. human rights panel is asking on america to lastly launch Abu Zubaydah, who was repeatedly tortured at CIA black websites and Guantánamo. We’re going to talk extra with John Kiriakou, who was concerned along with his seize in 2002, and we’ll converse with Abu Zubaydah’s lawyer. Stick with us.

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