Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva is condemning 1000’s of supporters of far-right former President Jair Bolsonaro who stormed the Brazilian Congress, Supreme Courtroom and presidential palace Sunday in a scene harking back to the U.S. Capitol revolt. Rioters smashed home windows, ransacked workplaces and set fireplace to a carpet contained in the Congress constructing earlier than authorities revamped 400 arrests. Bolsonaro has by no means formally conceded the race to third-term President Lula and fled to Florida, the place he has reportedly met with Donald Trump at Mar-A-Lago, whereas his supporters have blockaded highways and arrange protest encampments outdoors navy bases and within the capital Brasília to protest what they falsely declare was a rigged election. We get an replace from Brazilian newspaper columnist and professor Thiago Amparo in São Paulo and reporter Michael Fox, host of the “Brazil on Hearth” podcast.
This can be a rush transcript. Copy will not be in its last kind.
AMY GOODMAN: We start in the present day’s present in Brazil, the place 1000’s of supporters of the previous far-right President Jair Bolsonaro stormed the Brazilian Congress, Supreme Courtroom and presidential palace Sunday in a scene harking back to the January sixth revolt on the U.S. Capitol. The rioters, many wearing inexperienced and yellow — the colours of the Brazilian flag — smashed home windows, ransacked workplaces, even set fireplace to a carpet contained in the Congress constructing. Authorities ultimately regained management of the buildings, revamped 400 arrests.
This all got here one week after the inauguration of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of the Staff’ Celebration, who defeated Bolsonaro in October. Bolsonaro has by no means formally conceded the race. Simply final week, a couple of days earlier than Lula’s inauguration, he fled to Florida, the place he was reportedly met with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. Over the previous two months, Bolsonaro supporters have blockaded highways and arrange protest encampments outdoors navy bases and within the capital to protest what they falsely declare was a rigged election.
Lula, who was not within the capital on the time, condemned Sunday’s try and overthrow his authorities by what he referred to as “fanatical fascists.”
PRESIDENT LUIZ INÁCIO LULA DA SILVA: [translated] I’m going to return to Brasília now. I’m going to go to the three websites that had been broken — be assured that this is not going to be repeated — to find who financed this, who paid for his or her keep, they usually should pay the value beneath the regulation. …
Like true vandals, destroying what they present in entrance of them, we predict that there was an absence of safety, and I need to let you know that. All these individuals who did this shall be discovered and punished. They’ll understand that democracy ensures the suitable to freedom and free speech, nevertheless it additionally calls for that folks respect the establishments created to strengthen democracy. And these folks, these vandals, what might we are saying? They’re fanatical Nazis, fanatical fascists. They did what has by no means been performed on this nation.
AMY GOODMAN: Brazil’s former President Jair Bolsonaro responded to Sunday’s tried coup by writing on Twitter, quote, Peaceable demonstrations, inside the regulation, are a part of democracy. However depredations and invasions of public buildings like we noticed in the present day, just like the acts performed by the left in 2013 and 2017, should not inside the guidelines,” he mentioned.
We’re joined now by two friends. Michael Fox is a contract journalist, former editor of NACLA and host of the podcast Brazil on Hearth, the podcast a joint challenge of NACLA and The Actual Information Community. Thiago Amparo is a professor of worldwide regulation and human rights. He’s additionally a columnist for the — for — properly, you may pronounce it for me so I don’t pronounce it incorrect, Professor Amparo.
THIAGO AMPARO: It’s Folha de S. Paulo. It’s the principle newspaper in Brazil.
AMY GOODMAN: Properly, thanks a lot for being with us, to each of you. Professor Amparo, let’s start with you. What occurred in Brasília, the capital of Brazil, yesterday?
THIAGO AMPARO: So, first, thanks very a lot for having me.
What occurred yesterday was one thing that — unprecedented in our historical past. What occurred was the invasion of the chief, the presidential palace, the home of the Congress, and in addition the Supreme Courtroom ground. So, that’s — and what occurred was a large invasion of these buildings, a bodily destruction of historic paperwork, bodily destruction of the buildings. The entire ground of the Supreme Courtroom was destroyed.
And what started days earlier than that, over the weekend, a number of buses arrived to Brasília to hitch the protesters that had been tenting outdoors of the headquarters of the Military in Brasília. They had been there for a lot of months. However since Saturday and Friday, a number of folks joined the protests and joined the invaders. After which it grew to become very abruptly from a protest to this huge invasion that was unprecedented in our historical past. So, that’s what occurred in Brasília yesterday.
AMY GOODMAN: You’ve gotten mentioned that is far greater than the U.S. January 6 revolt.
THIAGO AMPARO: Mm-hmm.
AMY GOODMAN: Clarify.
THIAGO AMPARO: So, I might say that there are a number of parallels, in fact, due to the date and in addition the rhetoric. And in addition, one fact-checking company yesterday, Agência Pública in Brazil, mentioned that even the hashtag that folks had been utilizing was impressed by the January sixth in america. So there are apparent parallels.
However, however, the dimensions is far greater, as a result of if it was in america, it could be like if folks had been invading not solely the Capitol, the Congress, but additionally the White Home and in addition the Supreme Courtroom ground, and leaving all of it destroyed. So, that is what occurred when it comes to the dimensions.
Secondly, in america, they had been making an attempt to — a minimum of rhetorically, they had been making an attempt to stop the certification of the U.S. election of Joe Biden. In Brazil, what occurred, mainly, Lula was already licensed and was already — is already the president of Brazil. So, what’s the purpose of the invaders? It’s nonetheless all beneath debate, however in all probability what they’re making an attempt to do first is to point out their energy, however, secondly, even to overthrow the — or a minimum of momentarily overthrow the facility of the president, Lula. So, that is — when it comes to the have an effect on and the purpose that they’ve, and in addition the dimensions of what occurred yesterday, I might say that it’s even greater than what occurred on January sixth in america.
AMY GOODMAN: And the importance of Bolsonaro not being there — although they’re being referred to as, in fact, Bolsonaristas — however having fled, or you would say flown out of, the nation, a couple of days earlier than Lula’s inauguration? As a substitute of being there to point out the peaceable transference of energy, he flew to Orlando, and apparently has since, reportedly, met with Trump. He is named the “Trump of the tropics.”
THIAGO AMPARO: Mm-hmm, yeah. So, it was additionally a part of the technique, as a result of, first, throughout the entire presidency, not solely throughout the election cycle, Bolsonaro was spreading faux information concerning the electoral system and mentioned that it was fraudulent. So it was very clear that the president, Trump — President Bolsonaro was even attacking, for the reason that day one, the electoral system. And it was very clear by the final day — over the past days of his presidency that he was not clearly saying that Lula gained the election. After the election outcomes, he went silent. And some days earlier than the inauguration and the normal passage of the mandate, in a symbolic act that normally now we have on the January 1st of the brand new president in workplace, he didn’t go. He didn’t attend this occasion. He went earlier than, a couple of days earlier than, to america and stayed there.
And one attention-grabbing factor that occurred additionally yesterday is that the particular person answerable for the safety of the federal district the place Brasília is located is Anderson Torres. He’s a former minister of justice of Bolsonaro. And throughout the protest yesterday, the invasion yesterday, he truly was in america, as properly, on trip.
So, you see that it’s very clear that, first, Bolsonaro was making an attempt to not — was very clearly not saying that he misplaced election. For a few years he was saying that it was a fraudulent election — which it was not — spreading faux information. And in addition, the folks had been very clearly motivated by his rhetoric of difficult the establishments and attacking particularly the Supreme Courtroom and the Supreme Courtroom justice that attempted to combat towards faux information throughout the election cycle.
AMY GOODMAN: I’m taking a look at a piece in The Every day Beast, Michael Fox, that quotes Steve Bannon, the President Trump adviser, who wrote Sunday, “Brazilian Freedom Fighters,” is what he referred to as these which can be supporting Bolsonaro and have laid siege to the Congress, to the Supreme Courtroom, to the presidential palace in Brasília. Are you able to discuss who’s supporting these rioters in america?
MICHAEL FOX: Properly, the connection between Bolsonaro, Trump, far-right Trump supporters and, in fact, Steve Bannon — I imply, the connection between Steve Bannon and the Bolsonaro household runs deep, going again to even earlier than Bolsonaro had gained, you already know, again in 2018. It was his son, Eduardo Bolsonaro, who first received in touch with Steve Bannon. They had been supposedly — he was then serving to Bolsonaro on the marketing campaign path in 2018. Eduardo Bolsonaro is the pinnacle of Steve Bannon’s The Motion, his worldwide far-right group, to try to foment precisely what’s taking place in Brazil proper now throughout Latin America.
And, in actual fact, we noticed this after the primary spherical and the second spherical of the elections. Steve Bannon got here out simply the day afterwards, speaking about fraud, speaking concerning the electoral machines. He was spewing this similar info in a giant convention within the U.S., speaking about how Bolsonaro was going to win, if it weren’t for the fraud. So, completely, Steve Bannon and his community has been completely backing Bolsonaro and making an attempt to foment precisely what we noticed in the present day. And the connections between January sixth, January eighth, it’s simply so symbolic.
AMY GOODMAN: You even have one of many January sixth riot organizers, Ali Alexander, lauding the insurrectionists in Brazil, writing on Donald Trump’s Fact Social platform, “I do NOT denounce unannounced impromptu Capitol excursions by the folks.” So, so what if folks like Steve Bannon and Alexander assist Bolsonaro and the activists who’re outdoors and destroying elements of the presidential palace, the capitol and the Supreme Courtroom? Why does that matter? How a lot energy have they got?
MICHAEL FOX: It issues, Amy, as a result of it’s not simply Steve Bannon. He’s a part of this a lot bigger far-right community, and these persons are sharing experiences, they usually’re sharing — they’re sharing, mainly, “Pay attention, that is what you must do. That is how we’re going to make this occur.” And that is precisely what we noticed. This can be a copycat scenario. You had January sixth, you’ve got January eighth. And so they’re making an attempt to export this sort of factor world wide.
I imply, that is what Bolsonaro is. He’s the “Trump of the tropics” as a result of he embraced every part that Trump is and was, proper? He pushed fascist ideology, pushed lies, far-right lies. And mainly every part that Trump pushed, making an attempt to stir his folks up within the streets, making an attempt to push conspiracy theories, Bolsonaro was doing the identical factor as america.
We’re speaking about — the parallels between the U.S. and Brazil run so, so deep, the identical concept of exporting this type of tradition struggle into Brazil, which, in fact, it occurred robotically inside Brazil, but additionally the evangelical motion. The connections — and I speak lots about this, you already know, in my podcast, Brazil on Hearth, and these actually, actually deep connections, and the way these are being exported overseas on goal and embraced by Bolsonaro and a far-right imagery.
Now, what’s regarding right here, Amy, and the good distinction between January sixth and, in fact, this example, January eighth, is the function of the navy and the facility of the navy traditionally in Brazil. In fact, the imagery of the dictatorship is — it was not way back that Brazil had a 21-year dictatorship. It solely resulted in 1985. Lots of the individuals who had been within the streets simply yesterday, they give the impression of being again to that as a time of nice wealth. They loved the dictatorship. They’re authoritarian. They need dictatorship, which is one thing that Bolsonaro has been pushing since he got here into workplace. So, it’s actually vital to grasp the function that these gamers are taking part in, that Trump and Steve Bannon and his allies are taking part in in america, and the good impression that this may have overseas.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Amparo, for those who can discuss what you see is now going to occur? You had the Supreme Courtroom saying that each one the Bolsonaro encampments should be taken down inside 24 hours, which on the time of this broadcast is only a few hours from now. What concerning the function of the navy and Lula calling out the navy to cope with these protesters?
THIAGO AMPARO: So, I believe, Amy, the principle problem right here is — there are institutional challenges right here, as a result of the Military officers — and only for the viewers to grasp, is that for the previous months there have been lots of people tenting outdoors of the headquarters of the Military in a number of capitals in Brazil, asking for a navy intervention and navy dictatorship and issues like this. And so, these folks had been outdoors the headquarters of the Military, and the Military was resisting any sort of a forceful approach of eradicating folks from these camps. The camps are navy areas that ought to not have gatherings of civilians outdoors of these areas. So, there’s a first institutional problem, as a result of the Military officers are resisting any sort of intervention by the police and by the authorities in these areas. So, simply yesterday, after the choice of the Supreme Courtroom, proper in the course of the chaos, they determined that the camps needs to be taken down, as you talked about. The primary response of the Military in Brasília was to not permit the police to enter the realm. So, there was a negotiation to permit them to enter that space and do their job, which was to take away folks from outdoors of these camps. A number of the invaders that had been within the capital, that had been attacking the buildings, they went again to the camps, they usually had been allowed to remain within the camps. So there was an institutional stress between the police, the safety forces and the Military officers. A few of them are literally supporters of former President Bolsonaro.
So, there’s a problem on the bottom there, but additionally within the authorized accountability. One factor that the Supreme Courtroom is making an attempt to do now’s making an attempt to see who paid for it. So, mainly, comply with the cash when it comes to — there have been loads of buses, greater than 100 buses, that arrived to the federal district within the capital of Brazil over the weekend. So, who paid for the buses? Even the Supreme Courtroom resolution, there may be the record of the numbers of these buses, ought to attempt to discover who financed this.
So, there’s a query additionally not solely of eradicating folks from these navy areas to not permit for this type of invasion to occur once more, for safety causes, but additionally there shall be loads of discussions about what sort of authorized accountability of individuals on the bottom — greater than 100 folks had been arrested yesterday — but additionally individuals who financed and individuals who coordinated this type of occasion. And we noticed yesterday some U.S. lawmakers calling for the president, former President Bolsonaro, to be expelled from america and to face justice in Brazil. So, there was loads of dialogue, on the bottom, what’s going to occur with these camps, but additionally the authorized accountability of who financed it and who coordinated this type of occasion.
AMY GOODMAN: We simply have 30 seconds. Michael Fox, do you suppose the navy might aspect towards Lula?
MICHAEL FOX: I don’t suppose the navy goes to aspect towards Lula. There are positively sectors of the navy that like Bolsonaro, that wish to keep in reference to Bolsonaro. However at this level, the navy would lose a lot clout. That is clout that it’s constructed over the past 40 years, for the reason that finish of the dictatorship, they usually simply don’t need to go down that highway.
AMY GOODMAN: Properly, I need to thanks each for being with us. Michael Fox is a contract journalist, has the podcast Brazil on Hearth, sponsored by each NACLA and The Actual Information Community. And professor Thiago Amparo, professor of worldwide regulation and human rights at FGV and a newspaper columnist, chatting with us from São Paulo.
That is Democracy Now! Subsequent up, we take a look at Biden’s first journey to U.S.-Mexico border as president. Stick with us.