Mourners gathered in Memphis, Tennessee, Wednesday for the funeral of Tyre Nichols, who died on January 10, three days after being severely overwhelmed by 5 cops following a visitors cease close to his dwelling. The funeral will probably be held at Mississippi Boulevard Christian Church. Anticipated attendees embody Vice President Kamala Harris and relations of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, two different Black Individuals who have been killed by police violence. We focus on nationwide responses to police violence and calls to abolish the police with two friends. Justin Hansford is a professor at Howard College College of Legislation and the founder and govt director of the Thurgood Marshall Civil Rights Middle. Hansford can also be the primary American nominated and elected to the United Nations Everlasting Discussion board for Individuals of African Descent. Andrea Ritchie is a lawyer and organizer who has labored on policing and criminalization points for over 30 years. Ritchie is the writer of a number of books, together with, most just lately, “No Extra Police: A Case for Abolition,” co-authored with Mariame Kaba.
TRANSCRIPT
It is a rush transcript. Copy might not be in its closing kind.
AMY GOODMAN: Immediately, mourners are gathering in Memphis, Tennessee, for the funeral of Tyre Nichols. He died January tenth, three days after being severely overwhelmed by 5 cops following a visitors cease proper subsequent to his dwelling. The funeral will probably be held at Mississippi Boulevard Christian Church. Anticipated attendees embody Vice President Kamala Harris and relations of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, each killed by police. The funeral comes on the primary day of Black Historical past Month.
On Tuesday night time, the household of Tyre Nichols held a information convention on the Mason Temple in Memphis, the place Martin Luther King Jr. gave his final speech. It was April third, 1968, on the eve of his assassination. Audio system final night time included the Reverend Al Sharpton, who will give the eulogy on the funeral at this time.
REV. AL SHARPTON: What occurred to Tyre is a shame to this nation. There’s no different solution to describe what has occurred on this state of affairs. Individuals from around the globe watched the videotape of a person, unarmed, unprovoked, being beat to demise by officers of the legislation.
AMY GOODMAN: Van Turner, president of the NAACP in Memphis, additionally spoke Tuesday night time.
VAN TURNER: However we wish the motion this time. We would like motion this time. We would like them to move the George Floyd police reform right now. They owe us that. They owe this household that. They owe all the opposite households who’ve been damage, harmed or brutalized on account of interactions with legislation enforcement on this nation. After which, when that occurs, we’ve bought to name on the Tennessee Basic Meeting. … And so, what we’ve got to do is keep centered on humanity, keep centered on the trigger, keep centered on ensuring that Tyre Nichols didn’t die in useless. Justice for Tyre!
SUPPORTERS: Justice for Tyre!
VAN TURNER: Justice for Tyre!
SUPPORTERS: Justice for Tyre!
VAN TURNER: Justice for Tyre!
SUPPORTERS: Justice for Tyre!
AMY GOODMAN: Van Turner, president of the NAACP in Memphis.
We’re joined now by two friends. Andrea Ritchie is a lawyer and organizer who’s labored on policing and criminalization points for over 30 years. She’s the writer of a number of books, together with, most just lately, No Extra Police: A Case for Abolition, co-authored with Mariame Kaba. She’s becoming a member of us from Detroit. And in Washington, D.C., we’re joined by Justin Hansford. He’s a human rights lawyer, professor at Howard College College of Legislation, the founder and govt director of the Thurgood Marshall Civil Rights Middle. Professor Hansford can also be the primary American nominated and elected to the United Nations Everlasting Discussion board for Individuals of African Descent.
We welcome you each to Democracy Now! Professor Hansford, let’s start with you. Immediately is the primary day of Black Historical past Month. Final night time in Memphis, the household gathered within the historic Mason Temple, the place Martin Luther King gave his final speech, April third, 1968, a day earlier than he was assassinated, as they referred to as for accountability. And at this time is the funeral. Should you can reply to what’s going down proper now, and what you’re feeling must occur, as increasingly more info comes out, not simply the individuals who brutally beat him — and we could not know everybody who did at this level — but additionally the individuals who stood by, whether or not they have been EMTs or different cops or sheriff’s deputies?
JUSTIN HANSFORD: Sure. Effectively, first, thanks for having me, Amy.
I wish to begin off by reminding everybody that this case reminds us that these are structural issues which might be going to name for structural interventions. Too usually we’re compelled to concentrate on individuals at form of the top level of those damaged processes. And I do know some individuals checked out the truth that the preliminary 5 officers who have been concerned have been all Black, they usually stated to themselves, “Effectively, what does race must do with it?” However taking a look at the entire individuals concerned, wanting on the complete construction from the start to the top, we have to perceive that it is a damaged construction, and it’s structural racism that causes us to be on this place the place we’re at this time. So I’m not shocked that from George Floyd, Mike Brown, now to Tyre Nichols, we’re seeing the identical constructions. Although the gamers could also be completely different, the constructions are the identical, they usually haven’t modified over this time period. So, we nonetheless have quite a lot of work to do forward.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Professor Hansford, I needed to ask you — so many of those horrific incidents happen throughout visitors stops. Your response to those that say this case of Tyre Nichols is just some dangerous apples? What does the info present, the analysis, about how visitors stops are carried out by police across the nation by way of racial teams?
JUSTIN HANSFORD: Sure, effectively, essential race idea students, like Devon Carbado at UCLA, have proven repeatedly that, mainly, the extra occasions that there’s contact between cops and residents, particularly if the residents are Black, the extra probably there’s to be violence. And there’s actually no cause for police to be concerned in visitors stops to start with. There have been students who’ve proposed that police be taken fully out of visitors stops. I do know the town of Pittsburgh has experimented with that. And likewise, Berkeley, California, has had requires that. Even right here in Washington, D.C., the D.C. Police Fee has just lately really useful that. So, that’s a workable various. Once more, it’s not the answer, as a result of these are damaged methods and constructions that go all the best way deep to the foundation of what American policing is in the US. However that is one instance of the kind of pointless interplay that we are able to discover a solution to get rid of, if we’re working actually, actually strongly in attempting to create change.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And also you talked about the necessity for structural change. However what I’ve seen over the a long time is that each time an incident happens and there’s huge protests, there are guarantees by native leaders, and even generally nationwide leaders, of constructing some makes an attempt at main or systemic reforms, however as quickly because the protest motion dies down, the politicians pull again on no matter is the guarantees that they’ve made. How do you overcome this fixed try to form of coopt the motion for some time after which instantly return to enterprise as traditional?
JUSTIN HANSFORD: Proper. Effectively, one other essential race idea scholar who I love, Derrick Bell, had this philosophy referred to as curiosity convergence. And basically, he argued that racial reforms solely occur when there’s a convergence of the pursuits of the protesters and the individuals and the facility construction on the problem of race, the white energy construction. So, for instance, you noticed after the protests in 2014 and 2015, we referred to as for change, they usually gave us physique cameras. Why did they provide us physique cameras, after the entire various things we referred to as for have been put to the facet? As a result of physique cameras have been an intervention that ended up placing more cash into police budgets, additionally trainings — one other one in every of these reformist reforms that really don’t change something. So, you do see issues occur, however nearly all the time these are adjustments that finally serve the pursuits of the prevailing energy construction.
There are moments in our historical past the place there’s an intersection of our pursuits and the facility construction’s pursuits. That’s how integration came about within the Nineteen Fifties, Sixties. However discovering a solution to achieve some reforms within the context of the curiosity convergence actuality is — it makes it actually tough to seek out that quick, small window of alternative. So we’ve got to suppose deeply. That’s why I believe one thing like intervening in visitors stops, though not an answer, it maybe could possibly be one in every of these small home windows of alternative that we are able to benefit from on this second.
AMY GOODMAN: I wish to convey into the dialogue Andrea Ritchie. We’re speaking to professor Justin Hansford, not solely a Howard College College of Legislation professor, however a graduate from Howard Legislation, as is Andrea Ritchie. So it’s nice to have two graduates of Howard Legislation College, the traditionally Black faculty, having a debate and dialogue, I ought to say, about this problem of police reform, police abolition. Tomorrow, President Biden will probably be assembly with the Congressional Black Caucus to speak about police reform. Andrea, you’re co-author, with Mariame Kaba, of the e book No Extra Police: A Case for Abolition. Should you can first reply to Tyre’s demise, how he died, the variety of officers, legislation and well being authorities that have been on the scene, from EMTs to a hearth lieutenant — they’ve been fired — sheriff’s deputies, different police, one in every of them a white officer, who was solely just lately named, although he was suspended on the identical time the others have been fired, is the one who stated, “Stomp his ass”? He’s the one who tased him originally. We don’t know the id of the seventh police officer who was suspended. However reply to that and what you’ve been calling for, for a really very long time.
ANDREA RITCHIE: Effectively, first, I simply wish to acknowledge the extremely egregious, brutal and horrifying nature of this specific incident of police violence. And my coronary heart goes out to Tyre’s mom, his father, his siblings and his complete neighborhood that’s mourning and laying him to relaxation in grief and rage at this time. And naming that that could be a distinctive incident with devastating impacts on the people concerned is admittedly essential. And it’s additionally actually essential to notice that that is, as you heard from Memphis organizers earlier this week on the present, an extension of on a regular basis policing, not solely in Memphis, however in Nashville, the place a person was killed by police only a day or two in the past, and, as you talked about on the prime of the hour, throughout the nation.
And so, for me, I positively concur with Professor Hansford’s indication that police ought to be taken out of visitors stops. That’s a requirement that’s been coming from organizers lengthy earlier than it got here from the academe, and it’s definitely coming from organizers in Memphis proper now. And we have to transcend that. We do want to acknowledge that it wasn’t simply in regards to the particular person officers on the scene or their supervisors or the officers who have been coaching them or the management in place in Memphis, who got here from one other metropolis the place they supervised a unit that engaged in very comparable violence. It’s actually about, as Professor Hansford identified, the whole construction of policing.
And so, sure, what we name for in No Extra Police: A Case for Abolition is a recognition that that is policing. This isn’t an aberration. This isn’t an exception to the rule. That is the rule of policing. And so, it’s important that we take into consideration responses that can take not solely energy away from police to have interaction in this type of habits, by taking them, as an example, out of visitors stops, but additionally the sources and the weaponry and the legitimacy that allows them to proceed to have interaction in this type of habits. So, I do take a look at laws, just like the federal laws referenced, as laws that we have to actually be essential about, as a result of that laws would pour hundreds of thousands extra {dollars} into police departments just like the Memphis Police Division, that obtained $9.8 million in federal funds in 2020, along with the 40% of the town finances that it takes up, to rent officers like those that killed Tyre Nichols.
And so, we actually want to think twice as we transfer ahead: Are we going to proceed to pour more cash, extra energy, extra sources and extra legitimacy into departments which have confirmed — and policing, that has confirmed over and over that incidents just like the homicide of Tyre Nichols is the rule, not the exception? I believe that’s the query that we’d like to consider proper now, and whether or not the options that we’re advancing are, as Professor Hansford was mentioning, going to easily proceed to legitimize policing whereas permitting incidents like this to proceed with impunity and unabated, or are we going to take steps that can construct a world the place Tyre Nichols would nonetheless be with us at this time?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Effectively, Andrea Ritchie, how would you envision a police abolition? As a result of, clearly, there are some who would say that is pie within the sky, it’s unattainable, so long as there are societies with enormous class and racial divisions. What concretely would abolition appear like?
ANDREA RITCHIE: Effectively, I believe that you simply’re right to level out, Juan, that it might require a whole restructuring of the society that we stay in, and that it might require us to shift our priorities from responding to each type of want, battle and hurt with brokers of violence and increasingly more policing and criminalization, and as a substitute to deal with the foundation causes of the problems we face in our neighborhood, to make sure that everybody’s wants are met, to make sure that all of us have the talents and dedication and skill to intervene in, stop, deescalate and heal from hurt, and that we’ve got the sources we have to do this. And so, it does require a radical reimagination of what we perceive security to be and the implies that we dedicate to reaching it.
And, you realize, I believe many issues get named as pie within the sky and unattainable, however I believe what’s actually unrealistic is to proceed to spend money on a system that has confirmed over and over that it not solely doesn’t stop or intervene in or heal from violence, however really perpetuates and perpetrates increasingly more violence. So, to me, that’s the unrealistic place, that we’re going to someway proceed to attempt to tweak policing as incidents like Tyre Nichols’ homicide occur over and over.
I’ve been on this since Rodney King was overwhelmed in 1991, and I’ve seen nothing change — in truth, only a higher recognition that it doesn’t matter who the cops are, it doesn’t matter the place they stay, it doesn’t matter what the insurance policies are, it doesn’t matter how a lot oversight there’s, it doesn’t matter what number of prosecutions there are. We’re going to proceed to get up, as we did the morning we realized of Tyre Nichols’ brutal homicide, to tales like this, till we make these sorts of elementary adjustments. And it could actually begin with taking cops out of visitors stops or dismantling models like those that killed Tyre Nichols, however we are able to’t cease there. Now we have to truly reimagine a world the place violence is just not our response to each state of affairs.
AMY GOODMAN: I imply, the time period “police abolition,” “abolition,” Professor Hansford, in fact, coming from the abolitionists who needed to get away from slavery, from the enslaving of Africans in the US. Are you able to speak about your response to that, by way of all that you simply’ve checked out, from, particularly — and it’s fascinating you’ve this form of specific focus, taking a look at why do individuals who cease individuals for visitors stops — like I consider Walter Scott. I went to the AutoZone in North Charleston, South Carolina, the place he’s stopped for a damaged brake mild, and as he ran throughout the road, the police officer, Slager, shot him within the again. What this could appear like, police abolition? And do you help one thing like this?
JUSTIN HANSFORD: Effectively, sure, after I consider police abolition, I believe that it’s the suitable phrase. I take into consideration the abolitionists that we noticed within the nineteenth century — Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass — and their work, which was our future as a individuals, to be free. And I believe that’s a part of the identical custom. I believe that it’s the identical work. I believe that the methods that we’re dealing with at this time are continuations of the methods that the abolitionists within the nineteenth century labored in opposition to. So, sure, I help that. I believe that needs to be the last word purpose.
When it comes to how rapidly that occurs and when that occurs, that’s one thing that’s prone to be incremental — identical to all huge goals, they don’t occur in a single day — however one thing like visitors stops. I do wish to say that it’s a conundrum in a method, as a result of oftentimes, as I stated earlier than, in case you take a look at the previous reforms, like physique cameras and different reforms that — you realize, coaching, these reforms finally ended up at having us on this place at this time the place we’ve got over 1,100 killings previously 12 months, Black individuals extra prone to be killed — twice as prone to be killed as white individuals. So, really, killings have elevated, even with all this cash given to police departments to do extra trainings and to do extra physique cameras.
So, once more, one of these reform, we’ve got to be involved about energy shifting to those different authorities officers to conduct surveillance, to make use of extra expertise throughout these visitors stops. In the event that they’re not cops, that doesn’t imply they’ll have the facility to look. That doesn’t imply that they’ll have weapons. That doesn’t essentially imply that they’ll be utilizing cameras to conduct surveillance. So we’ve got to be very cautious with how the precise implementation of a reform like this takes place, as a result of the satan is within the particulars. And that’s what we’ve seen over the previous couple of years because the killing of George Floyd, actually because the killing of Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. There have been responses which have taken place, however nearly all the time, after we don’t maintain our eye on the precise implementation of these responses, we really find yourself in a worse place, as a result of more cash is put into these departments, and we worsen outcomes, underneath the heading of goodwill and reform.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And talking of the satan within the particulars, there’s been quite a lot of consideration centered on the federal stage on laws just like the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act and the much more progressive BREATHE Act. May you speak about your sense about these initiatives? And it’s nonetheless going to be very tough to have the ability to get them via any Congress proper now, however your sense of those makes an attempt at some form of a — not structural, however substantial reform?
JUSTIN HANSFORD: Proper. Effectively, my studying of the excellence between the BREATHE Act and the Justice in Policing Act is much like Professor Ritchie’s distinction between reforms that really make investments cash within the system and reforms that divest cash from the system. And my understanding is that the BREATHE Act, along with attempting to divest cash and put that cash in direction of different options to supply public security, additionally offers extra of a therapeutic, reparations-focused lens on how to reply to the system of violence that they name policing in the US.
The Justice in Policing Act is what’s on the desk. I do know that Senator Cory Booker is prone to reintroduce it this week. The Congressional Black Caucus and different advocates are probably to make use of that as their negotiating software over the following few weeks. With Republicans accountable for the Home of Representatives, it’s onerous to actually be enthusiastic in regards to the prospects. Should you couldn’t have it occur when Democrats have been accountable for each homes, how will it occur now? So, there’s actually a — I believe there must be an trustworthy dialogue about what we are able to accomplish. And maybe a reform like this visitors reform or another reform which may be a small piece of those bigger payments can be one thing that could possibly be a risk.
AMY GOODMAN: Andrea Ritchie, I used to be questioning in case you might go extra into — as, you realize, Biden is about to satisfy with the Congressional Black Caucus on Thursday to speak about police reform. On Monday, you tweeted, ”Y’all do know that we police ‘misconduct’ attorneys generally win motions to defeat certified immunity, and people cops are nonetheless on the market beating, sexually assaulting, and killing individuals, proper??” Should you can clarify that? And likewise, simply merely additional clarify, since polls which were executed, a current research, robust public opposition to abolishing the police, though a considerable majority of persons are additionally involved about police violence — actually lay out concretely what you imply.
ANDREA RITCHIE: Effectively, I simply wish to identify about that laws, is that I actually consider there isn’t a justice in policing. And many individuals, together with Derecka Purnell, have written that the act that may be named after George Floyd wouldn’t have prevented his demise, and it wouldn’t have stopped the killing of Breonna Taylor, both, and that what it might have executed is poured, as we’ve mentioned, hundreds of thousands extra {dollars} into policing as a substitute of into the issues that communities want with a purpose to construct security for themselves. So I believe that’s an essential factor to level out.
I believe additionally the concentrate on ending certified immunity, I believe, is a type of form of curiosity convergence moments that Professor Hansford was referring to. I simply wish to actually emphasize to individuals, certified immunity solely comes into play after somebody has been harmed, after somebody has been killed. And, you realize, it’s a protection in civil litigation {that a} cop can increase in protection of their actions to keep away from having to pay compensation to the relations, and it’s a protection that we are able to generally overcome in litigation. And there are officers who’ve raised that protection, haven’t been capable of assert it. Their motions to lift that protection have been defeated. And people cops nonetheless have been capable of stay on the power, stay continued of their employment, and are nonetheless on the market doing the violence of policing that we’ve been speaking about.
So, that’s what I used to be getting at with this tweet, is that I’m probably not enthusiastic about reforms that solely concentrate on what we do after cops have beat a 29-year-old father to demise. I wish to concentrate on reforms which might be going to cease that from occurring within the first place. And I wish to focus and I wish to invite the Congressional Black Caucus and everybody else who’s occupied with what to do on this second to consider what’s really going to forestall actions like this from occurring, not form of what we do about them after the actual fact, which really gained’t even cease the person officers concerned from persevering with to have interaction in that habits, a lot much less tackle the system that allows and makes that habits doable. So, for me, it’s about decreasing the facility and the legitimacy and sources that we put to policing, and investing within the issues that communities have to be protected.
And so, I believe that’s the piece to Juan’s level about individuals questioning what abolition seems to be like, as a result of what they’re being advised is just that we’re going to remove what is commonly the one authorities response to any hurt, battle or want, whether or not that one produces extra violence or whether or not it really produces any higher security, and folks don’t suppose that there will probably be something put instead. And the concept of abolition, as Ruth Wilson Gilmore steadily reminds us, is of truly constructing, of making, or resourcing, of pouring the vitamins which might be being robbed of our communities by police, the cash that cops are looting from our communities, and placing it again into the issues that improve security — housing, healthcare, revenue, training, public areas, neighborhood, robust communities, expert communities, communities which have the capability to be there and with and for one another and forestall violence.
And so, I actually suppose that after we ask individuals, certain, you realize, with out additional clarification, “Do you suppose we should always take away the one factor you’ve been taught is the one solution to security?” in fact persons are going to have a response. But when we are saying, “Do you consider in investing within the issues that really have been confirmed scientifically, via research, to extend security in communities?” — and we speak in No Extra Police a few research that confirmed that a rise of 10 community-based organizations in a neighborhood will lower violence in the neighborhood, you realize, in a reciprocal relationship. So, if we level individuals to what we wish to spend money on and how much society we wish to construct, and that these investments will really improve security, the overwhelming majority of individuals really help these sorts of proposals. It’s a query of how the problems are framed and whether or not they’re — how they’re framed significantly by people who find themselves invested within the present system.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Andrea, I needed to ask you — a deeper take a look at this problem of the resistance of a lot of the American public to actually dismantling or systematically altering policing. Does it must do extra, I’m wondering at occasions, with DNA of the nation — in spite of everything, a rustic that has been constructed on weapons, on violence and repression of the opposite in U.S. society? America is admittedly an outlier among the many industrialized nations of the world in terms of the prevalence of violence and weapons and toleration of killing. Even in spite of everything of those faculty shootings, individuals nonetheless don’t wish to have any sort of regulation or severe regulation of weapons within the nation. I’m questioning: Does which have something to do with the shortcoming of individuals to know how police are functioning in our society?
ANDREA RITCHIE: Effectively, in fact. And at this time, the primary day of Black Historical past Month, we’d be remiss if we didn’t, you realize, emphasize that this nation is constructed on violence, and it’s significantly constructed on the violence of genocide of Indigenous peoples and enslavement of African peoples, that was enforced, each of these issues, by police and policing, as was the exclusion of migrants and the policing of migrants. And so, these issues are very a lot embedded within the very constructions of American society and in addition within the tradition of American society, that has embedded policing in our minds, as professor Patrick Blanchfield factors out, as the answer, versus an issue, even within the face of cases just like the one which we’re at the moment sitting with of the brutal homicide of Tyre Nichols, on prime of, as Professor Hansford was saying, the deadliest yr, in 2022, by way of police violence in a decade, regardless of all of the reform that has been superior or proposed within the wake of the homicide of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. And so, I believe — and Mike Brown and Trayvon and so forth.
And I believe we actually want to acknowledge that we’ve got to unlearn this notion that violence is the answer to violence, that policing is our solely path to security, and actually acknowledge and look to what communities really know to be true, which is that it’s {our relationships}, it’s our sources, and it’s our dedication to one another’s security and well-being that’s really the pathway to security. And we’ve got to actually unlearn that within the face of a wave of copaganda. Each time there’s an occasion of police violence like this, the police must react to the problem to their legitimacy by reaching for his or her most dependable weapon, which is concern and fearmongering and actually attempting to bolster in individuals’s minds that the one resolution to security is police, when in truth police are a risk to our security, as evidenced by this incident and hundreds extra.
AMY GOODMAN: You talked about Breonna Taylor and Tyre Nichols. , they’re the identical age, born on the identical day. They have been 29. Effectively, Breonna would have been 29 years previous. Tamika Palmer, Breonna’s mom, will probably be on the funeral at this time and pointed this out. Justin Hansford, earlier than we go, I do know that the world is watching the US proper now. You’re the primary American nominated and elected to the United Nations Everlasting Discussion board for Individuals of African Descent. Are you able to speak about how your work has been impressed by the internationalist imaginative and prescient of Malcolm X, and the way it applies to what’s occurring at this time in the US?
JUSTIN HANSFORD: Sure. Effectively, for me, personally, it’s the continuation of that dream, the place Malcolm X, upon his assassination, when he created the Group of African American Unity, needed to take Black individuals’s case to the World Court docket, which was the United Nations, and argue that our points, like police violence, aren’t civil rights points, they’re not simply home political points, however they’re human points, as a result of they communicate to our want for human dignity and respect for our lives as human beings, not simply as residents or citizenship rights.
And in 2014, after I was in Ferguson and I labored with the Mike Brown household to take the Mike Brown case to the U.N., I noticed that it was a imaginative and prescient that we’ve got to proceed, as a result of we have to ensure that not solely is the world watching, however we wish to ensure that the world is taking part on this dialogue, particularly within the Black diaspora. Now we have to help one another. And there’s help for us throughout the globe. And so, this U.N. Everlasting Discussion board is an —
AMY GOODMAN: Seems to be like we simply misplaced Professor Hansford. However we’ll hyperlink to the continued protection of what occurred not solely with Tyre proper now, the funeral at this time, however what unfolds sooner or later, and, in fact, proceed to cowl it on Democracy Now! Professor Justin Hansford is Howard College College of Legislation professor, additionally, as I simply stated, human rights lawyer, in addition to govt director of the Thurgood Marshall Civil Rights Middle. And Andrea Ritchie, lawyer, organizer and co-author, with Mariame Kaba, of the e book No Extra Police: A Case for Abolition.
Subsequent up, a standoff continues exterior a resort in Midtown Manhattan, the place asylum seekers are protesting plans by New York Metropolis to maneuver them to a distant Brooklyn terminal. Stick with us.
