Joe Rogan, comedian, has been criticized for spreading homophobia COVID-19 Misinformation, including the use of racial and other harmful language on his Spotify podcast. Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, among others, have pulled their music off the platform in protest at his $100 million contract with Spotify. This raises questions about how responsible an audio platform should be for hateful content. “He’s made it clear that he doesn’t have any intention of changing the lies and hate he spreads on his podcast, and it’s far past time that Spotify came to the plate and actually moderated the content on its platform,” says Alex Paterson, a self-described “Joe Rogan watchdog” and senior researcher for the LGBTQMedia Matters: Program
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AMY GOODMAN: “Find the Cost of Freedom” by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. Neil Young’s former bandmates have also asked to remove their music from Spotify in protest of Joe Rogan. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Calls are growing for the audio-streaming app Spotify to remove Joe Rogan’s podcast from its platform after he promoted misinformation about COVID-19 on his show, and a video resurfaced that showed Rogan making racist comments. India Arie, a Grammy-winning artist, shared a viral clip of Rogan using the N word on his show twice a dozen times last Friday.
JOE ROGAN:Like, you know? [bleep] thing. … Yes, saying the word [bleep]. … You’ve already said [bleep]. … It’s just like [bleep]. … Saying [bleep]. … She’s called you a [bleep]Like this. … Boy, that he’s a [bleep]. … But starts calling him [bleep].
AMY GOODMAN: Other resurfaced videos show Joe Rogan saying Black people have “different brains” and comparing a neighborhood with “no white people” to the Planet of the Apes. Rogan posted an Instagram video of his apology last weekend, in which he addressed the supercut.
JOE ROGAN: I’m making this video to talk about the most regretful and shameful thing that I’ve ever had to talk about publicly. There’s a video that’s out that’s a compilation of me saying the N-word. It’s a video that’s made of clips, taken out of context, of me of 12 years of conversations on my podcast, and it’s all smooshed together, and it looks [bleep]It was terrible, even to me. I do know that it is not allowed for a white person to use that word in any context, let alone publicly, on a podcast. I can confirm that. I haven’t said it in years.
AMY GOODMAN: In a video response Wednesday, India Arie said she thought some of Rogan’s apology was disingenuous, and added, “Spotify is built on the back of the music streaming, so they take this money that’s built from streaming and they pay this guy $100 million but they pay us 0.003% of a penny?” she said. Arie also mentioned Roxane Gay and other writers in clarifying that Spotify should curate its content, and not censor it.
INDIA ARIE:Censorship means that you are under threat of losing your life or freedom to speak your mind. No one’s being censored here. She said this is not censorship; this is about curation — curation meaning choosing what you want in a space, choosing the space you want around you. Curation. This is not about censorship. This is about curation. Spotify is making a choice as to the space they want to curate. Together with other creators, we are making choices about what space we want to curate. … My conversation is not about Joe Rogan. It’s not all about Spotify. It is about my integrity, my dignity.
AMY GOODMAN: Spotify has now deleted scores of past episodes of Rogan’s podcast. Spotify, however, is not. CEO Daniel Ek has refused to cancel Rogan’s exclusive contract. In a memo to Spotify workers, Ek wrote, quote, “Canceling voices is a slippery slope,” unquote.
Media Matters, a watchdog organization, published a list of instances Joe Rogan spoke about the impunity at Spotify. This is a portion of it.
JESSICA KIRSON: ‘Cause I didn’t.
JOE ROGAN: Did they know that you’re Jewish, though?
JESSICA KIRSON: Yes!
JOE ROGAN: Well, then, they’re [bleep].
JESSICA KIRSON: You can’t say that.
JOE ROGAN:But I did.
JESSICA KIRSON: Yeah, but you’re not allowed.
JOE ROGAN: But I’m on Spotify. You can do it.
PATRICK BET–DAVID: The part that —
JOE ROGAN: That’s just because the world has gotten more controversial.
PATRICK BET–DAVID: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN:I have not changed anything. Spotify has asked that I change nothing. They’ve never come to me —
PATRICK BET–DAVID: But that’s the part, yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. They’ve never —
PATRICK BET–DAVID:Kudos!
JOE ROGAN: No, they’ve been amazing.
PATRICK BET–DAVID: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: I’m very happy with them. Spotify has not given any pushback to me. … Spotify didn’t seem — I mean, I had to take a chance, but they didn’t seem like they were going to censor me in any way.
AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined by Alex Paterson, senior researcher for the LGBTQ Program at Media Matters and their self-described “Joe Rogan watchdog.”
We are glad you are here Democracy Now!, Alex. You’ve said Rogan has 11 million listeners per episode. You’ve watched hundreds of episodes. I’d like to start with the racism, the N-word. And, of course, that’s also linked to COVID misinformation. But what about his statements over the years and the deal with Spotify? This goes back a long time. Spotify needed to understand what he was saying and what they were purchasing.
ALEX PATERSON: Absolutely. They knew what they were getting when Spotify gave Rogan a $100million check to be on their platform only. Rogan has delivered. Rogan has continued to promote anti-trans hate and racist tropes on his podcast. I heard you play his apology video, but this week on his podcast he said he was happy that that video came to light, and he called it a “political hit job.” He’s made it clear that he doesn’t have any intention of changing what he’s — the lies and hate he spreads on his podcast. And it’s far past time Spotify came to the plate and actually moderated the content on its platform.
AMY GOODMAN:Tell us a little bit about Joe Rogan for those who haven’t heard of him and how this story came to be.
ALEX PATERSON:Joe Rogan, comedian MMACommentator who rose to stardom in America first by acting in comedy, then as the host of Fear FactorHe is now the most-listened to podcast in the world. He has over 11 million listeners each episode, which is four times the number of viewers that broadcast cable news programs like Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity receive per night. So, what Spotify has on its hands is a serial misinformer that’s reaching a huge, huge audience.
And he’s not only spread hateful remarks on his podcast, but he regularly lies about the pandemic. Over the past year and a half, he has encouraged people not to get vaccinated, and he’s repeatedly lied that mRNA vaccines are a form of gene therapy. And it’s clear he’s one of the most prominent COVIDThere are currently -19 misinformed Americans in the U.S. and Spotify is totally failing to address it.
AMY GOODMAN: You’ve reported that, as you said, that Rogan is one of the most prominent misinformers about COVIDThe media landscape. In April, he said on his podcast he believes healthy 21-year-olds don’t need to get vaccinated.
JOE ROGAN: [People say, “Do you think it’s] safe to get vaccinated?” I’ve said, yeah, I think, for the most part, it’s safe to get vaccinated. I do. Yes. But if you’re like 21 years old, and you say to me, “Should I get vaccinated?” I go, “No. Are you healthy? Are you a healthy person? Like, look, don’t do anything stupid, but you should take care of yourself. You should — if you’re — if you’re a healthy person and you’re exercising all the time and you’re young and you’re eating well, and, like — I don’t think you need to worry about this.”
AMY GOODMAN:Alex Paterson, what’s your response?
ALEX PATERSON:The clip speaks for its self. This isn’t a symptom of Joe Rogan’s podcast. This is something he’s doing almost every single day. He has also lied that President Biden perhaps didn’t get vaccinated on live TV because he could have died. And he recently said that children don’t need to get vaccinated. His podcast has also featured unproven, potentially dangerous treatments. He was the one who made ivermectin a major topic of national debate. And Spotify’s response is —
AMY GOODMAN:Explain what ivermectin means.
ALEX PATERSON:Yes, ivermectin has been widely prescribed and people have begun to use it to treat their symptoms COVID-19. But largely, when you look at the research, there’s no proven methods for it to treat COVID. And what’s more, it can be taken in excess and have dangerous outcomes.
AMY GOODMAN:I would love to visit, what? Joe Rogan hosted Jordan Peterson, a conservative Canadian public figure, on his podcast a few days back, January 25th. Peterson spent almost an entire hour trying to discredit the climate science.
JOE ROGAN: We still have a weird idea of nuclear because of the several — you know, whether it’s Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. There’s been a few disasters. Fukushima —
JORDAN PETERSON:Yes, more people are killed each year by solar energy than from nuclear.
JOE ROGAN:Who dies due to solar radiation?
JORDAN PETERSON: Guess. Guess what happens when you die from the sun.
JOE ROGAN: Sunburn?
JORDAN PETERSON: No, you fall off the roofs when you’re installing it.
JOE ROGAN: Oh.
JORDAN PETERSON: Yeah, “oh,” right?
JOE ROGAN: That’s gravity.
JORDAN PETERSON: Yeah, gravity. Gravity.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
JORDAN PETERSON: And, you know, that’s a good example of unintended consequences.
AMY GOODMAN:Alex Paterson, would you be able to respond?
ALEX PATERSON: One thing I think that clip shows is that Rogan’s episode at any point in time has the ability to become a lightning rod for right-wing misinformation. We see clear lies about climate changes. And also in that episode, Rogan and Peterson claimed that Michael Eric Dyson isn’t actually Black, and spread other racist tropes.
What has Spotify done to respond to this episode? Nothing. Potentially 11,000,000 people could have heard that direct and taken it as truth. And what we’re seeing is that this is repeatedly happening on Rogan’s show. And I’ve listened to over 350 hours of his podcast in the last year, and we’re just now seeing people take action against him. And until Spotify does something, I think we’ll continue to see artists and content creators leave the platform.
AMY GOODMAN: Alex, let me ask you about Spotify saying they’re keeping Rogan, they’re not going to censor him. That’s a “slippery slope,” the CEO, Ek, says. And also, to repeat what India Arie, the musician, said, “Spotify … built on the back of the music streaming, so they take this money that’s built from streaming and they pay this guy $100 million but they pay us 0.003% of a penny?”
ALEX PATERSON: It’s simple. Money speaks. And right now Spotify is showing that, above all else, it wants to profit off Joe Rogan’s lies about the pandemic and his hateful bigotry. And it sends, clearly, a message to artists of who’s most important here.
AMY GOODMAN: In 2020, you shared a clip from Rogan’s podcast when he lied and claimed left-wing people, I think he put it as, were starting forest fires, which led to outrage that led to Rogan apologizing. But Spotify didn’t take any action.
ALEX PATERSON:Yes, CEODaniel Ek, the CEO of Spotify, has stood by Rogan repeatedly when Rogan lies about vaccinations. He also spreads lies straight out of Fox News. An additional point I want to make is that it’s not just Rogan on the platform. Media Matters has identified a whole network of right-wing pundits, anti-vaccine skeptics, who have spread harmful misinformation via podcasts. Steven Crowder is one. He hosts a podcast on Spotify and recently suggested the idea of Omicron parties. Despite Spotify having strict rules prohibiting people encouraging others to get infected, that episode is still available on Spotify. COVID-19.
AMY GOODMAN: You’ve said that Rogan evades accountability by inviting others on to voice the false or extremely discriminatory ideas.
ALEX PATERSON: Mm-hmm, yeah. I’d love to point out, he has a really cunning way of avoiding any accountability. When you look at Rogan’s podcast, it’s comedians, scientists, professors, and then a ton of right-wing and far-right pundits, people like Alex Jones, like Ben Shapiro. And Rogan knows what he’s doing. Rogan knows what kind of rhetoric these people will spread on his podcast. He has a very clever way of avoiding any accountability when he is held accountable in the media. He claims to be a, quote, “moron.” And that’s not true. He knows exactly what he’s doing here. Rogan and Spotify are both aware of the influence he has.
AMY GOODMAN:What is Media Matters all about?
ALEX PATERSON: We’re calling for Spotify to publish and enforce robust rules around misinformation on its podcast — on its platform. If you look at Spotify’s current platform rules, it makes two mentions of COVID-19. It doesn’t say anything about masks, distancing, preventative measures or downplaying the pandemic. Spotify must enforce these rules, which I have mentioned in part. Joe Rogan reduced the severity of child rape this week. He said that 13-year-old boys could have sex with adult females. Spotify doesn’t allow content that suggests it’s OK to groom children for sex, but Spotify hasn’t done anything in response. We’re just really asking them to take accountability for the content that they’re creating.
AMY GOODMAN:Alex Paterson, thank you for being our senior researcher for this. LGBTQ Program at Media Matters and their self-described “Joe Rogan watchdog.”
Coming up American ReckoningA new documentary about unsolved crime from the civil rights era ini Natalie, Mississippi. Stay with us.
